Conservative Political Action Conference chairman Matt Schlapp spoke with NPR at the Kempinski Hotel in Budapest, Hungary. Claire Harbage/NPR hide caption
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Claire Harbage/NPR
American and European populists, nationalists and conservatives are gathering today in Hungary, where Prime Minister Viktor Orbán praised President Trump.
“The Trump tsunami swept through the world and changed the entire world,” Orbán told attendees of the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) as he opened the two-day meeting in Budapest. “It gave back hope to the world. We are no longer suffocating in the woke sea.”
In recent years, American conservatives have viewed Hungary — and Orbán — as an aspirational model for their own movement. He’s succeeded not just in winning four consecutive elections but also implementing his agenda, backed by a supermajority in parliament.
But after 15 years of leadership, critics say Orbán has corroded democratic institutions. The European Commission is withholding billions of euros allocated for Hungary over breaches of E.U. law. Most of the union’s members seek tougher action over the country’s effective ban on upcoming pride celebrations.
Orbán also has his champions. They include the American chairman of CPAC, Matt Schlapp, who credits the Hungarian leader’s electoral successes to his policies, including those aimed at stopping migration.
Schlapp also says more international leaders are looking to the U.S., and President Trump, for direction. And he’s planning to expand his organization’s foothold across other cities around the world.
“The one thing that’s undeniable is that everybody wants to know where Donald Trump is on the issues that matter to their country,” Schlapp told Morning Edition. “They’re really rooting for Donald Trump to succeed.”
NPR’s Leila Fadel met Schlapp in his hotel lobby in Budapest on the eve of the conference to talk about the deepening alliances between Trump’s MAGA movement, Orbán’s Fidesz party in Hungary and other right-wing movements in Europe.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Leila Fadel: What’s the big message that you’re bringing to Hungary this year?
Matt Schlapp: The message is fight, fight, fight.
Fadel: Sounds familiar.
Schlapp: We’ll be doing CPACs in Australia, in Japan, in Argentina, in Colombia, in Mexico, in other places. The one thing it’s undeniable is that everybody wants to know where Donald Trump is on the issues that matter to their country. People can have their opinions on Joe Biden, but most people who are suffering around the world suffered worse after his policies. Maybe they weren’t intended [to do so], but the weakness of the American presidency, the fact that he wasn’t an all-the-time president, had a negative effect in a lot of these countries, and they’re really rooting for Donald Trump to succeed.
Fadel: Would you like to see more MAGA-like movements here in Europe?
Schlapp: When I go to these countries, I’m always shocked. Poland: a lot of Trump hats. This is what’s happening all around the world. They view the center-right parties, which is where I come from, as having failed them. They didn’t fight hard enough for the things that they care about. New parties are sprouting up and it’s a fascinating thing to be a part of.
Fadel: Is there a Trumpism after Trump? A MAGA-like movement?
Schlapp: The people who get up every morning listen to NPR might be hoping that this was an aberration, that this is something of a cult of personality movement, and that when Donald Trump isn’t the president anymore, this will go back to some kind of normalcy of what the situation was before. And what I’ve had to explain to people over the course of certainly the last five years, is that if you refuse to listen to what’s happening in politics, you’ll continue to be surprised by what happens in politics. And when you actually listen to the people around the country, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that Donald Trump won. You could see the fact that people felt dissatisfied with both parties, but certainly were very dissatisfied with the fact that the Democratic Party moved so far to the left. This has changed American politics even when Donald Trump is no longer a candidate.
Fadel: We were talking to Hungarians across the country, some who support Prime Minister Viktor Orbán’s policies over the economy and other things, and others who really feel like the institutions are sliding into an autocratic place.
Schlapp: I felt like America’s institutions were definitely in an autocratic slide. I felt like I couldn’t get a fair shake. People who have CPAC-type values couldn’t get a fair shake in the major national media. We couldn’t get a fair shake in the big city courtrooms, couldn’t get a fair shake when it came to having corporations be neutral on politics, they seemed to all get involved in every left-wing political cause of the day. I’ve talked to tons of Hungarians who feel like it’s Brussels that are the autocrats, it’s the U.N. that are the autocrats, it’s the WHO that are the autocrats that tell doctors how they should prescribe medicine. And this is why over the next few years, you will see more populist conservative victories because the people see those large global institutions as being the autocrats, not the saviors of the little guy, but the ones dictating foreign policies that make their lives worse.
Fadel: Are there policies here in Hungary that you think the U.S. should embrace?
Schlapp: He’s a unique leader because one of the reasons why he has a strong bond with President Trump is he had power and he lost power and then he found a way to regain power. They have some similar characteristics, which is they understand that to be successful in the current environment in this country and an American and a lot of other important countries, do you accommodate the globalists or do you fight the globalists? He’s controversial because he’ll actually fight on questions like immigration. What’s happening in Europe is the EU wants to dictate to these countries how many migrants they take and what Orbán and the people of Hungary are saying is, no, we’re going to determine what our immigration policy is. Most people who I associate with view it as the most common sense thing in the world. Why would anybody be able to live legally in Hungary without the government of Hungary being able to say that it’s okay?
Fadel: Is there anything that you’ve seen here in Hungary that you want to take back to the U.S.?
Schlapp: I think the prime minister understands that if your population rates continue to go through the floor that it is an indication of an economic winter that’s coming. The only way Hungary exists for another hundred years is if there are people, Hungarian families, who want to have kids. Of course, abortion plays into this, and his tax policies have actually resulted in a big drop in the number of abortions without making abortion less legal. And this is a debate we have within conservative circles – is it about barring abortion or is it about making young women feel the security that they could raise their kids and have enough money and have childcare and those questions.
The broadcast version of this story was edited by Arezou Rezvani and produced by Taylor Haney. The digital version was edited by Olivia Hampton.
